The following videos can be found on youtube demonstrating Davis and White's versatility, talent, and skills.
This is from aWaltzFlower, with videos focusing on the evolution of twizzles from D/W and other couples competing now.
Regardless of theme of the dance, the music, and the tone, D/W use the same set with minimal variation into and out of their twizzles. To them, the arm and body movements of a Persian dance is the same as a waltz or samba. Everytime the twizzles come up it appears that they just forget whatever the theme should be and turn on the four years of muscle memory. Most of the time they execute it well but the element has never showed any versatility or been adapted to the choreography. Other couples sometimes go back to their old elements if they have trouble getting the levels along the way in a season, but Meryl and Charlie just don't bother and use the same ones since 2010. Why learn new variations when the judges eat this right up and hand out 10s and +3s?
Now, you might say to remember ice dancing is a sport, and who cares if the elements are the same, as long as they're level 4 and done correctly? After all pairs and singles skaters do the same jumps every year, right?
However, let's look at the ISU's own rules: www.isu.org/media/104327/handbook-for-referees-and-judges-2013-final.pdf
And with that botched twizzles with no change of interpretation compare to previous dances they've done, here are their marks:
As you can see, asynchronous twizzles such as D&W performed at GPF should received no higher than -1 GOE. Furthermore, a one point BONUS can be achieved if twizzles reflect the character of the chosen dance. How can the same twizzles reflect the character of latin, tango, waltz, lyrical, and Persian dancing???
Why would ANYONE bother to try and match the twizzles to the mood of the dance, when D&W get automatic +3 GOE Just for being D&W? Judges, stop judging on reputation.
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| It's ok Kaitlyn, maybe they'll retire this year. |
The following are taken from Ice Princess's youtube channel:
Sheherazade & Samson and Delilah
My Fair Lady & Die Fledermaus (funny thing My Fair Lady is suppose to be a Foxtrot...)
Notre Dame & Sheherazade (although NDP is more of a clone of the Phantom of the Opera)
Judge for yourselves if the music makes a difference. Personally I feel they rely on the music to manufacture the impact while doing the same programs without showing any versatility of a champion ice dancer that is supposed to be well versed in various forms of dance.
Ice dance has stagnated because these are the best ice dancers this quadrennial according to the ISU.
It's really something else to look at the videos and see that even lower ranked/recent junior teams go to the effort of changing it up, and D&W don't.
ReplyDeleteThe only senior teams I can remember doing the "hop into a set of double twizzles" like D&W are Gilles/Poirier in their first season and Kokhlova/Andreev in their first and only season (remember, was a singles skater learning ice dance for the first time).
How can D&W fans possibly defend that?
Especially when the twizzles weren't even perfect at GPF, which you'd kind of expect given all the practice.
I see in the other comments people are bitching that people are "pressed" and have too much time on their hands, but seriously, how can you defend this kind of marking on this one element? And it's endemic of the marks they are receiving for other mediocre elements and mediocre skating skills.
I understand liking their style but how can you honestly say it should beat these other teams, not just a clean Virtue/Moir but the teams going right on down to 9th?
anyone here who is a math wiz/knows CoP can calculate the score if d/w were properly scored for their twizzles (e.g. got -1,-2 GOE) because im pretty sure v/m would've won gpf if they were properly scored
ReplyDelete@6:53 AM,
ReplyDeleteSome of Marina's junior teams also do the same twizzle pass that D/W use. If junior teams can do these twizzles and a person just learning ice dance can do these twizzles, it seems like the best team in the world would have long ago come up with a new, more difficult and innovative set instead of using the same one for both programs for 6 seasons now.
The problem must be is that DW are just too "fast" for the current scoring system. The poor judges must have either blinked or just can't distinguish the synchronisation, much less the character of the twizzles because they are just a blur across the ice. It's remarkable how they can avoid drilling a hole in the ice surface.
ReplyDeletelol okay. I'm thinking along more of the lines that the judges are turning a blind eye to their mistakes and holding them to a double standard compared to the other teams, not just V/M.
DeleteV/M would have won the GP even if all you did was change the +3s to +2 in the GOE (both SD & FD), reduce the twizzles in FD to a level 3 and reduce the 10s to 9.75 in just timing for both SD and FD. Wouldn't be a very large margin for a win, but it would be a win. Change all the +GOE on the twizzles to -1 in both the SD and the FD, add in the reduced level on the FD twizzles and you would have a comfortable (for dance) winning margin for V/M. There would be an approximate 1.70 reduction in the SD alone if using changes as listed here. Find there would be an over 3.0 reduction in the FD of D/W. Final reduction of more than 5 points on D/W would definitely give V/M the win (190.00 to 186.24). Pretty sure these numbers are correct but would welcome anyone else to check out their/my numbers for comparison.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't reduce the level of the twizzles in the FD, just the GOE...or is there something I am not seeing? I thought the PCS was WAY too high for DW in both programs--imo, that is where most of the inflation is occurring--and VM, PB, CL (she has issues with her basics but is looking much better now) , and maybe even BS (horrible FD, but better skating skills than DW and certainly less toe picking) and WP (like Anna, she has issues with her basics but is looking much better now) should have beaten them there. All those teams are better dancers than DW, but DW have been told by the marks that dancing is not important. When you can win and set WRs by not doing much dancing, why take the risk?
DeleteCharlie failed to move across the ice as he was performing his twizzles in the FD. Part of the definition of a twizzle is moving across the ice as you spin around. If you spin around in one place, it's not a twizzle, it's a spin. Check out the FD video above at watch the 1:54-1:57 mark (this happens during his second twizzle set). If you aren't moving across the ice, it's a deduction in the level.
Deleteanyone here want to have a laugh? because i just stumbled across the worst analogy ever (from goldenskate of course)
ReplyDelete"“Yeah, it’s almost as if someone came along and offered someone an emerald and a sapphire, and instead of saying, “Wow, two awesome jewels!” the person said, “I like emeralds. That sapphire looks kind of dull.” And someone else said, “Are you crazed? Everyone knows that emeralds are second-rate compared to sapphires!” … As if there are other gems of this luster lying around on the ground everywhere we look.”
first of all, VM/DW are humans beings not precious gems, second of all, if you are oh so adamant to compare their SKATING to precious gems VM are more like diamonds and DW are more like cubic zirconia. some people may prefer cubic zirconia as it is a cheap and more accessible alternative to diamonds but nothing cant compare to diamonds because diamonds are forever. but alas even that analogy has its faults because at least cubic zirconia is VERSATILE.
LOL! Love your response!
Deletef
Deletehey if the isu can overlook the blantant mistakes D/W make maybe you can overlook mine :)
DeleteyoU SHOULD POst this in the V/M fan thread on golden skate!
DeleteI've been reading in various comments in various blogs that D/W's SD music, awful as it is, is not even foxtrot music, and more suitable for a waltz, and therefore, should get a deduction. Are there any music experts here on this blog that can verify that claim?
ReplyDeletei dont think its eligible for a deduction (even though it should be) because its in the right tempo and rhythm but its not in the right style.
Deleteeven if you just read the wiki definition of the foxtrot " long, continuous flowing movements across the dance flow" d/w arent doing that. they're dancing a foxtrot, quickstep, foxtrot but their movements/choreography for the foxtrot sequence are quick and abrupt and their steps are short . its not necessarily the music thats a problem but the choreography.
Deletethis was posted on fsu http://thesmartset.com/article/article01311401.aspx its a pretty great read actually especially this part
ReplyDelete"What you cannot take or leave is the gliding, the smooth sweeping. What you cannot forget, once you’ve watched the performance, is the perfect symmetry between the two bodies. They are connected even when they aren’t connected. They move with such synchronicity that they begin to overlap in personhood." too bad though that the ISU is determined to give the OGM to a team that has terrible lines and posture and cant even match their free legs