Looking back at the Grand Prix series and the
outrage against scores given out at the Rostelcom Cup (aka Cup of Russia) in
the short dance is – comical.
Having
read posts at various figure skating forums, one could find it rather amusing
that all of a sudden some posters think that there is something wrong with the
judging system. Not only did they gave a Russian ice dance couple the lead
after the short dance, but gave them a huge lead. Because it’s so massive (in
terms of how a team could possibly catch them, not likely to happen), might as
well just call it a day. The Russian team was gifted. It’s a travesty how
“those two” who made very noticeable mistakes were still given levels on
elements that should clearly have had reductions.
Not
fair, you say? How can this be? Do the judges and tech panel not see what’s
taking place right in front of them? Is this another case of judging “who” is
skating and “where” rather than what is actually taking place? Hmmm …
Shoot the duck as performed by D/W in their FD at SA |
Shoot the duck as performed by B/S in their SD at CoR |
Looking
at both photos above, are there any who would suggest that both of these moves
are equally done well? If so, then here’s a suggestion of what to look at
·
The
man – one male is slightly bent at both the waist and at his knees and using
one hand, the other is severely bent at the waist (with his butt clearly bent
outward), knees quite bent, using both arms
·
The
woman – one female has her legs rather close together and her body well off the
ice; the other has her legs spread apart as though having a gynaecological
examination and her butt is so close to the ice it almost touches
Should
both of these moves be given the same credit in any of the PCS criteria? Oh,
you don’t know what the judges use as PCS criteria – will address that later.
Would anyone suggest that by looking at the photos, that these two moves are
equally well done?
And then there’s the posture when both
of these teams are skating in general. Both of these teams show terrible
posture at times – especially when in dance hold. When in hold (open or closed)
the hips of the two skaters should be close together not so far apart that you
could fit a third person between them. One team gets called out for their bad
posture (B/S) on figure skating forums while the other hasn’t and still
doesn’t. Why? Reputation judging? or something else? Pick a theory and explain
why.
Well
let’s just say that this isn’t the first time a team has benefitted in scoring
and it doesn’t always reflect what’s taking place on the ice. You want an
example of over scoring? How about what has been given to Davis & White of
the U.S. over the past few seasons. It all starts when they skate “at home” at
Skate America. The marks are inflated. Why? Good question but it could be a
number of answers, not the least of which is they know exactly how little they
need to do to reach the top level. Never mind if it’s same twizzles they’ve
been doing for years or lifts where Charlie hauls Meryl into place – as long as
it is “ticking off the boxes” to reach the level, that’s all that matters.
GMAB.
They
make a mistake and it’s either “not seen” or just plain not deducted. Curious
as to how that happens. It used to be known as SWR (skating while Russian) but
now it seems to be SN D/W (skaters named D/W).
The
level on their Finnstep should have been reduced by at least one for it. Did
that happen? No way! They were skating “at home”. If another dance couple had
made the same mistake would they have gotten a lower level on that pattern?
Maybe, perhaps, likely. How can I say such a thing? What happened far too often
occurs when other dance couples make mistakes, the mistakes are almost ALWAYS
seen and are docked quite accordingly/heavily for it. As a result, the team in
second place is so far behind the first place team that the competition is
pretty much over.
How
can such a thing be, you ask? Well it does happen in other disciplines and
there’s a great deal of “wuz-robbing” that goes on about them too. However,
most times you can see that deductions were made for mistakes and yet the
superiority of the skater and the program still makes up for that (Patrick Chan
anyone?).
What’s
even funnier? The irony of some of the same people who laugh at fans for
thinking the judging is fixed in favour of one team over another are the same
ones freaking out over the results in Russia. They even use the same reasoning of
why their team should always be in first for the team that finished in 2nd
place (Weaver/Poje of Canada) at CoR: they have worked incredibly hard over the
past few years; they deserve a fair shot at a medal; they're not going to get
one; it's ridiculous and it's sad; can't imagine what it feels like to be them.
How do you wake up and have the motivation to train, knowing what's happening
behind the scenes and what it means for you, is beyond me.
If
they really want to know the answer to that last “question” ask the rivals of
Davis/White what it’s like. Oh yeah, and they share the same training rink AND
coach.
Is
“turning a blind eye” something new in dance? Not if you ask people who have
been fans dance for decades.
Some Background
When
ice dance first appeared on the World Championship stage (1952) what
differentiated it from pairs was that it was to be a disciple that drew from
the world of ballroom dancing. At that time the British style of ice dance was
usually followed which emphasized upright carriage and strong edges achieved by
deep knee bend. Beginning in the 1960s, Eastern European skaters started a
trend to dance in more open positions, which allowed for greater speed over the
ice, more upper-body involvement, and greater projection towards the audience.
The 70’s saw top Soviet dancers develop a more theatrical style of ice dancing
incorporating elements of ballet and often based on narrative program themes.
The Russian style of dance emphasized extended line and speed, rather than
difficult rhythmic footwork. In some cases, elaborate choreography for the
upper body was used to camouflage fundamental deficiencies of skating technique.
And then ice dance joined the Olympic scene (1968 as demonstration sport, 1976
as an official sport).Who were the first Olympic Gold Medalists you ask? Lyudmila
Pakhomova & Aleksandr Gorshkov – from Russia. Because this style of dance
was continually used as the barometer of all that was “supposed” to be ice
dance and what was being awarded, by the 1990s rolled around you found all the
top dance teams were performing dances in the theatrical, rather than ballroom,
style. It
seemed that if you wanted to beat the Russians, you had to become Russian in
your skating.
Did
the Russian teams really deserve all those titles? Well that depends upon who
you ask and what you “thought” ice dancing should be about. The scores for all
teams Russian – were they really merited? Many thought not. Just because one
team was “faster” (and usually in open hold) didn’t mean they were better – at
least not to the ice dance purists. Those who followed ice dancing thought that
teams from the Soviet were getting generous marks aka “over marked”.
Shortly
afterward, many discussions took place about the “over scoring” on the “far too
dramatic” style of ice dance. Many other members of the ISU began to lobby for
a return of ice dance to its ballroom roots.
Why?
Quite likely because it seemed one country of dancers was benefitting by a
style preferred by a group of people representing many countries who had at one
time represented one country – the one that was doing all the winning with the
“theatrical” style of ice dancing.
So
here we have it. Fans of one dance couple, complaining about the scoring (or
over scoring) of a team who makes mistakes yet cannot/will not acknowledge that
their own team makes mistakes and are either not docked for the mistake or are
over scored far too often. They really should remove the beam in their own eyes
before pointing out the mote in others.
This is the weirdest blog I've seen since the V/M baby theory blog.
ReplyDeletelooks like the d/w fans found this blog LOL. tell me how does it make feel that the only way D/W can win an OGM over V/M is to rig the whole competition?
DeleteIt wasn't that hard to find this blog when someone linked it in tumblr and tagged D/W...
DeleteGold medals are great, aren't they!
so you agree that d/w are bad skaters and wouldnt stand a chance against v/m if they werent held up by their fed/ didnt have the right connections?
DeleteApparently that's the only way they could win, and I want them to win, therefore...some sort of math law. Love those gold medals!
Deleteso you dont give a shit about the sport at all?is a medal for your country worth the whole demise of a sport? niiiiiiice.
Deleteif so why are you watching figure skating in the first place?
DeleteHey Foolishbeat @6:21pm, ya, we V/M fans take skating wayytty too seriously, because you know, this is a sport and all (well, maybe not after Sochi when ice dance will be kicked out of the Olympics, no thanks to D/W). Sorry we want to talk about the nitty gritty aspects of the sport--and GASP!--refer to video evidence. Go back to the D/W blogs and threads and discuss magical wizard hair and princess outfits to your heart's content, seeing as you're incapable of contributing to the skating discussion here.
DeleteOh, I think binker/rainbowkisses has arrived, which inevitably means fan wars...
DeleteAnyways, I really like DW but I have to admit they have been overmarked this quad. I disagree with those who say they are bad skaters (they are not, it is just that their competitors are really strong, including their countrymates), but I wish they would go and work with someone like Krylova/Camerlengo or Linichuk/Karponosov (remember what they did for Tanith in just a short time?) who would get them to work more on their basic stroking. I think Charlie is very good if a bit wild, but Meryl tends to skate on flats and shove the edges down. Linichuk/Karponosov don't have another top team right now, and if they went there they would also receive much needed help on their lifting technique as well as on their line and posture. They might stay in past 2014, and if they do I hope they go since Marina is just disguising their weaknesses rather than addressing them.
"Oh, I think binker/rainbowkisses has arrived, which inevitably means fan wars..."
Deletelolz I've been here for a while now
Yaaaaaawn. We've heard all this bile and nonsense (lol the sit the duck thing, what even are you on about?) before. Uber derangement syndrome is a powerful thing that affects all of us from time to time. You'll feel dumb later on, whatever the results of the Olympics are. And why link this on the D/W fan tag? Nobody cares except the people already posting all over the VM baby blog. It's time for the Olympics now, it's supposed to be fun. Y'all have had your say, just let the pieces fall where they may. Now you're just being petty and trying to ruin other people's fun. Stay pressed.
ReplyDeleteBecause everyone with a different opinion has a mental illness right?
DeleteHi Foolishbeat, good to see you spreading your sarcastic sunshine around.
DeleteWe V/M fans are fans of SKATING, so ya, it pains us that a huckster team like D/W is going to be coronated an undeserved gold because some a bunch of USFSA and ISU weasels arranged it to be so. So bugger off, will ya? Take your vile somewhere else.
Truly laughing at the "take your vile somewhere else" comment, considering this blog.
Delete@ 6:18 http://i.imgur.com/5Z7QPNk.gif
DeleteWhere is the debate, you have eyes don't you? These videoclips aren't doctored. DW are clearly getting a free ride to Olympic gold. All other teams have to actually skate, but not entitled DW as they hop and skip and yank their way around the ice, with their interchangeable dance rhythms.
ReplyDeleteTo the DW uber Skate2Gold/foolishbeat: If you don't agree with something why not point out where/what you don't agree with? The blogger has done the homework and has provided the evidence to backup his/her claims. If you can't refute the evidence or want to engage in any kind of rebuttal, stop throwing a fit like all the DW ubers and take your uberdom over to the DW fan blogs.
ReplyDeleteI am not a fan of either of the North American teams, and I do believe the Soviet/Russian teams deserved their titles in most cases, for the same reasons I think Davis-White do not deserve some of theirs. In the old days, posture, line, unison, dancing properly in hold (not swinging your partner around but actually dancing with each other in hold), and ice coverage mattered a great deal. You needed these things to win. These are all things Davis-White struggle with. I don't care for the current style of Virtue-Moir (I wish they would go back to modern dance because their free program this year is not very interesting) but I have to admit that they have all these things in spades. I was hoping one of the young Russian teams would be in contention for gold at these Olympics but as it stands now, Virtue-Moir should be going into the Olympics as the heavy favourites. I am surprised to hear people constantly talking about this rivalry because, while the Americans are a good team, they are nowhere near the top teams in terms of skating skills, line, posture, musicality. Davis uses a lot of mini-jumps to get across the ice. Go back and look at Oksana Grishuk, probably the fastest ice dancer ever. Her speed came from proper technique, something the Russian school is famous for. That is the kind of speed I want to see in ice dance, not this hopping rubbish.
ReplyDeleteI agree that DW are overmarked and it needs to be discussed, but I think this is just rude: "legs spread apart as though having a gynaecological examination". Couldn't you have chosen a more polite way to describe her position?
ReplyDeletetbh thats tame compared to the comments others have made on v/m's carmen
Delete@9:33 That IS a polite way of putting it. I can think of plenty of vulgar ways to describe her position and then you'd probably boo hoo about that too, how mean people are toward their disney pricness. GMAFB.
DeleteLOLz
ReplyDeleteWhaat? There's a Tessa& scott Baby blog? Where?